Comments on: Is It Possible at All to Discuss Language Wars without Starting One? http://coffeeghost.net/2008/03/22/is-it-possible-at-all-to-discuss-language-wars-without-starting-one/ Al Sweigart's blog. Fri, 03 Feb 2012 10:06:43 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Bob Gneu http://coffeeghost.net/2008/03/22/is-it-possible-at-all-to-discuss-language-wars-without-starting-one/comment-page-1/#comment-1884 Bob Gneu Thu, 27 Mar 2008 01:31:26 +0000 http://coffeeghost.net/2008/03/22/is-it-possible-at-all-to-discuss-language-wars-without-starting-one/#comment-1884 I have got 16 languages under my belt and i cant say that ive ever been deceived into believing they all served the same purpose. This is especially relevant when learning the quirks of any language. Perl's list swapping procedure, php's crazy library of functions, interactions with databases across the board. Languages all have their niche and I dont know that we have all been conditioned to believe all languages are the same or naive enough to believe that something like lisp is identical to Python. BTW - Al, this anti spam procedure is very cool. I have got 16 languages under my belt and i cant say that ive ever been deceived into believing they all served the same purpose. This is especially relevant when learning the quirks of any language. Perl’s list swapping procedure, php’s crazy library of functions, interactions with databases across the board. Languages all have their niche and I dont know that we have all been conditioned to believe all languages are the same or naive enough to believe that something like lisp is identical to Python.

BTW – Al, this anti spam procedure is very cool.

]]> By: Bob Gneu http://coffeeghost.net/2008/03/22/is-it-possible-at-all-to-discuss-language-wars-without-starting-one/comment-page-1/#comment-1882 Bob Gneu Thu, 27 Mar 2008 01:22:52 +0000 http://coffeeghost.net/2008/03/22/is-it-possible-at-all-to-discuss-language-wars-without-starting-one/#comment-1882 Its really a terrible thing that this type of argument is so difficult to have between seemingly rational people. It's a bit too common for my own tastes. There is, unfortunately a reason they are called Religious arguments through. The only thing i have been able to do to change any of this is that i habitually tell all developers in my company and at school not to camp, and that seems to be having a good effect. Its still quite sad that the great majority of people out there tend to choose to be offended at the prospect of their chosen language being inefficient at doing anything. I work at a place that totes a huge Perl & MS C# flag which unfortunately leads to some very serious performance issues, not to mention the fact that they have to contract their work out all of the time to get anything done. Great post regardless. bravo. Its really a terrible thing that this type of argument is so difficult to have between seemingly rational people. It’s a bit too common for my own tastes. There is, unfortunately a reason they are called Religious arguments through.

The only thing i have been able to do to change any of this is that i habitually tell all developers in my company and at school not to camp, and that seems to be having a good effect. Its still quite sad that the great majority of people out there tend to choose to be offended at the prospect of their chosen language being inefficient at doing anything. I work at a place that totes a huge Perl & MS C# flag which unfortunately leads to some very serious performance issues, not to mention the fact that they have to contract their work out all of the time to get anything done.

Great post regardless. bravo.

]]> By: machine head http://coffeeghost.net/2008/03/22/is-it-possible-at-all-to-discuss-language-wars-without-starting-one/comment-page-1/#comment-1840 machine head Tue, 25 Mar 2008 01:29:02 +0000 http://coffeeghost.net/2008/03/22/is-it-possible-at-all-to-discuss-language-wars-without-starting-one/#comment-1840 Humans are not as optimized yet as to be able to percieve things in an undistorted way. If you say "chocolate ice-cream", it is bound to trigger some piece of code in my system, bringing that code up and running it. The predictable result is that I then blame you for the result the execution of the program produced, instead of taking the responsibillity of debugging my own code. There are ofcourse exceptions; people who have, to a larger extent, managed to debug their own software and is aware of this phenomena. Enjoy life and coding! Humans are not as optimized yet as to be able to percieve things in an undistorted way.
If you say “chocolate ice-cream”, it is bound to trigger some piece of code in my system, bringing that code up and running it.
The predictable result is that I then blame you for the result the execution of the program produced, instead of taking the responsibillity of debugging my own code.
There are ofcourse exceptions; people who have, to a larger extent, managed to debug their own software and is aware of this phenomena.
Enjoy life and coding!

]]> By: Mike Warot http://coffeeghost.net/2008/03/22/is-it-possible-at-all-to-discuss-language-wars-without-starting-one/comment-page-1/#comment-1835 Mike Warot Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:17:05 +0000 http://coffeeghost.net/2008/03/22/is-it-possible-at-all-to-discuss-language-wars-without-starting-one/#comment-1835 I think that the basic issue here is one of expectations. We expect certain behavior from programming languages, and it's been pounded into our heads that any language is equivalent to any other, and only the syntax varies. Pascal, Basic, Assembler all act the same when it comes to strings... and Python comes along and won't let you modify the value of a string... and you get a bit confused... and shocked... and it's unpleasant at best... you might get lucky and get insight later... but that takes a lot of work and some luck. --Mike-- I think that the basic issue here is one of expectations. We expect certain behavior from programming languages, and it’s been pounded into our heads that any language is equivalent to any other, and only the syntax varies.

Pascal, Basic, Assembler all act the same when it comes to strings… and Python comes along and won’t let you modify the value of a string… and you get a bit confused… and shocked… and it’s unpleasant at best… you might get lucky and get insight later… but that takes a lot of work and some luck.

–Mike–

]]> By: ScooterDude http://coffeeghost.net/2008/03/22/is-it-possible-at-all-to-discuss-language-wars-without-starting-one/comment-page-1/#comment-1748 ScooterDude Sun, 23 Mar 2008 03:39:13 +0000 http://coffeeghost.net/2008/03/22/is-it-possible-at-all-to-discuss-language-wars-without-starting-one/#comment-1748 As a .NET developer trying to break into the Python language, I agree that it's difficult to discuss with my .NET coworkers what I am learning in Python without them totally missing the point and focusing on my new "fad". If they would look past the difference in languages they might see that Python is forcing me to think outside the (.NET) box. It's giving me a perspective on an entirely different culture and allowing me to step outside my statically typed safety zone into a more dynamic realm. Great post. Mark As a .NET developer trying to break into the Python language, I agree that it’s difficult to discuss with my .NET coworkers what I am learning in Python without them totally missing the point and focusing on my new “fad”. If they would look past the difference in languages they might see that Python is forcing me to think outside the (.NET) box. It’s giving me a perspective on an entirely different culture and allowing me to step outside my statically typed safety zone into a more dynamic realm.

Great post.

Mark

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